Podcast Transcript
Why Wellness Matters Episode 2
Listen to the episode here: https://linkpop.com/rwyh
[MUSIC PLAYING]
[Teaser Intro]
Sonia Sandoval-Edinger:
It's trusting that people are going to do what they say they're going to do. And sometimes it means I don't know you. And so I'm going to just trust you.
[START]
Crystal Cardenas:
Hello, and welcome to our second episode of Remember Why You're Here. Today, we have our very own executive director Sonia Sandoval-Edinger. Sonia has over 16 years of experience overseeing projects dealing with abuse prevention, intervention and treatment on a state and national programs. Sonia has taken on several roles at CIR from project coordinator to project director to board member and now to executive director.
In addition to her work at CIR, Sonia has worked for the National Head Start Family Literacy Center where she developed culturally relevant curriculum for Head Start staff, parents, and community partners. She has organized and participated in multiple training events throughout the nation and worked with the pool of teachers across the United States to collect best practices and share them. I have been very fortunate to work alongside Sonia for the past 10 years.
She has shared her wisdom with me not only on project work, but also on how to be a great leader and supervisor. This is Crystal again hosting our second episode with our executive director Sonia. Hi, Sonia. Welcome.
Sonia Sandoval-Edinger:
Hi.
Crystal Cardenas:
Thank you so much for taking a break from all of your bookkeeping duties. For all the listeners, you all are dying to know that Sonia is doing bookkeeping and payroll today, so she had to take a break to join us. So I want to just start with what CIR is famous for. And, Sonia, we're famous for our fun committee. So can you tell me how it got started and a little bit about what we do?
Sonia Sandoval-Edinger:
So the fun committee-- I'm going to say probably historically it started because our content is hard. So people would go to CFIT, they'd come back, they'd be a little overwhelmed. They'd hear all these case studies, or we do Spanish speaking interviewing meetings, and they talk about interviews that happened, and it's heavy. And so we were trying to find ways to lighten things up a bit and have an outlet because we know we can't take this stuff home. You and I know that.
Try that and traumatize your spouses and your siblings, and so we can't take it home. So the only place we can deal with that typically is here. And not everybody here likes to deal with it. They don't necessarily want to talk about it. And so I think the fun committee was started because we wanted to build in ways to kind of release that stress and also a way to connect with each other. So we're North and South. So we have-- people may not know this, but we have an office in the North and an office in the South. And it's historically been hard to keep us connected because we don't have the funding to visit each other more than once a year. And so we rely a lot on-- it used to be phone calls.
Crystal Cardenas:
Right. That's what I was going to say that when I first started, Zoom wasn't a thing. When we did our webinars, it was on GoTo Meetings, and so that was like a big thing. And so you really just relied on phone calls and emails. And I think one of the first things that we really started with fun committee was the pumpkin decorating contest and that was like a big like North versus South and we're all going to line up our pumpkins and then post them on Facebook
Sonia Sandoval-Edinger:
And not say whose is whose.-
Crystal Cardenas:
Yeah.
Sonia Sandoval-Edinger:
Yeah, so I think that was a big one. And then we did like the birthday-- we always, I think, celebrated birthdays and anniversaries, but it became a thing. And then 12 Days of Christmas, I think, was the--
Crystal Cardenas:
Yes.
Sonia Sandoval-Edinger:
--holidays. And then I think it just got-- after, it was-- so that was what? Fall? And then December, I feel like we did the same year. And then I think we did a wellness challenge?
Crystal Cardenas:
Yes. Exactly.
Sonia Sandoval-Edinger:
But yeah, it was a way to incorporate the, I think, the wellness in general, but then also connect us to each other, and then just have fun. And so it's really morphed now because of Zoom. We've done like the Pictionary online with each other, which is really-
Crystal Cardenas:
Even Family Feud online.
Sonia Sandoval-Edinger:
We did those puzzles which were really, really hard. And the nice thing too that I like about the fun committee is it's not-- I have nothing to do with it. I mean, aside from giving them money--
Crystal Cardenas:
Right, the money.
Sonia Sandoval-Edinger:
--to do the thing for it, it all comes from the staff. Like you said, what their interests are in the month, what their interests are in the South, what's exciting for them. So it's, kind of, nice. It's all you all.
Crystal Cardenas:
Yeah, for sure. OK. So I know that we're going to get into this episode talking about wellness and what you do for CIR and how you focused and made sure that we maintain our culture throughout. But before we get into what are some of the things that you do with CIR, I wanted to talk about the pandemic and what shift you saw in the work culture and how that's informed you in how we do things now.
Sonia Sandoval-Edinger:
I feel like we did probably more with the fun committee to connect each other because one of the things at least in our, and maybe this isn't with everyone, but in our team, when we weren't physically in the same room, it's like you forget. We would chat each other a lot on Zoom, but when you're in an office together, you would just like get up and walk over and ask a question. And we didn't do that. You didn't like pick up the phone. You didn't just call somebody up to chat and be like, do you have time? Let's make an appointment. So it felt more formal.
Crystal Cardenas:
Right.
Sonia Sandoval-Edinger:
And I think it disconnected a lot of us. We started doing staff meetings once a week. We started to do more of “what kind of training do we want to do?” And then we did our fee for service, pay by seat is what we call them, because for a while, we always wanted to do certain topics that just don't fall into our grants and I think there's frustration there, with staff. And so we're like, let's try. Let's take a little risk and try and put on one event and see what happens. And if it goes well, then great. If not, then we learn, and then we figure out what to do next.
Crystal Cardenas:
What came out of the pandemic was that we looked at each staff as individuals. Each person has a certain need that needs to be met, right? And I really wanted to focus on their goals with them, and what is it that makes you happy and what are those passions. Even if it's something that we couldn't cultivate work wise, but we could cultivate within the staff.
Sonia Sandoval-Edinger:
In terms of supervising, I always felt like you can't treat everyone the same. Some people have parents that they're taking care of, some people have kids are taking care of, some people have health issues, some people are really introverted and just need some time by themselves. So I think everyone-- I've always come from the place that everyone needs different things. So equal doesn't look the same. Equal is whatever works for that person.
Crystal Cardenas:
Right.
And for me, personally, I like-- obviously, I don't have a commute. I live really close to our Southern office, but I like being able to come in, work, and then go home. Because when I'm at home-- during the pandemic, I worked all the time.
Crystal Cardenas:
Right.
Sonia Sandoval-Edinger:
The computer was in my kitchen. I was working at 6:00. I was working at 8:00 at night. It was not healthy for me. So for me, it gives me that boundary, and it allows-- it's just easier for me to talk to people in person.
And I think you feel like that too.
Crystal Cardenas:
Yes, exactly.
Sonia Sandoval-Edinger:
When you're here, you're like I feel like we're all meshing and doing really well together. And so it was hard for me to say, OK, we can be at home and how many days can we be at home? Because there was such a disconnect. I had the fear, with that pandemic, of the disconnect. But then just-- people needed stuff. People had long commutes, and people just liked having a couple of days at home. And so I can't remember when now– We said we would try a hybrid schedule where we'd pick two days to be-- that you could be at home. You could pick any two days that we wanted to make sure that everyone was in the office together at least one day because there's something about being all together. And then everyone got to pick and it's like let's see how it goes. And if the days don't work that you wanted to be home, then we'll readjust but we haven't really had to. And it's worked really well I think--
Crystal Cardenas:
And think what's funny is that as supervisors-- or at least for me as a supervisor, you do worry that people will just choose to be at home and not want to come back and what we've experienced, because it's been like two years now, is that people want to be in the office and that they want to be in the office when their co-workers are in the office. There's something to that. They want the conversations that are sparked, the energy, the building of relationships.
So I think that it is definitely a testament to just giving people that freedom to choose and knowing-- and also I think when you're looking at it from a supervisor point and not always thinking about the quantity of work, I think that is a fear that supervisors have is they're going to be at home and they're not going to work. And I think letting go of that and giving people-- like treating them as a responsible adult who cares about their job and knowing that they're going to get their work done.
Sonia Sandoval-Edinger:
And I think we're pretty good at looking at workloads for everybody, and trying to balance everything out. And I've always been like I think it's weird for people that are new. Like we're not to the minute people. We're not getting in at 8:00 and leaving at 5:00. We're like 8:15, 8:20 and then if you leave a little bit early, it's OK. It's more, are you getting your things done?
Crystal Cardenas:
Right.
Sonia Sandoval-Edinger:
Not how many things are you getting done. So I think it's a trust. It's trusting that people are going to do what they say they're going to do. And sometimes it means I don't know you, and so I'm going to just trust you, and then see what happens. And they really do come through. And I think it's just being aware like we have to let go a little bit and see what happens, and then adjust if we need to.
Crystal Cardenas:
For sure. So, kind of, on that, how do you handle it when someone new comes in or someone who you haven't built that strong trust with yet comes in and they ask you for a special request or an accommodation, even if they're not calling it that? How do you handle that as a supervisor?
Sonia Sandoval-Edinger:
When we say that we have this culture, we really do it. I think a lot of people don't believe us. I feel like we have staff that are like, are you serious that we can do that? And really did you mean it when you said? But we do.
Crystal Cardenas:
Yes.
Sonia Sandoval-Edinger:
So I think one, we model that from the beginning, so they can see that it's happening. And then I think just, kind of, watching and getting to know them. If someone asks cannot work at home a day or can I work one less day, because I'm struggling or can I take this week off because of whatever, if you're paying attention, you'll notice that maybe they're stressed. If you talk to them-- we do puzzle time here. Drink our coffee and do a little bit of puzzling in the morning or at lunch. And so talking to people and getting to know them. They're not going to share all of their stuff, but you'll get to a sense of like I go home and I do this or I have to walk in the morning-- I used to go running in the morning because it was like it would release my anxiety and my stress, and then I came in a better person. And so I think learning that and then that way, it's not so much of a surprise that they need it. And also, we don't know what people are going through.
Crystal Cardenas:
Right.
Sonia Sandoval-Edinger:
We don't know what everyone's going through. So if they're asking for something, one, they're asking which is a huge thing, right? And so why not try it? Like, if they need it, then they need it. And they're probably going to be a better employee because of it. And then I think when they don't ask, try to see are they needing something and then reminding them that we do-- because a lot of times what happens, I think, with us is they always say CIR is great when you have kids, right? Because we're super supportive, kids can come into the office, you bring your baby, you work at home a day. We're very good at that. But it's not just kids. Some people, it's their dogs. And it's like so then we used to bring dogs in. Bring your dog in with you–
Crystal Cardenas:
Right!
Sonia Sandoval-Edinger:
–or I have to go home because my dog is sick or like my dogs were like crazy, so we had to go for a walk during the day. Some of them are parents. Some of them are just good friends. Some of them are family friends.
So everyone has their own stuff. So it's not just-- when we say family, we're family, friend, pet, all of that. And just being supportive overall. And a lot of times we have to remind people of that. Like it's really OK. This is what we mean when we say flexibility.
Crystal Cardenas:
Now I want to shift and talk a little bit about when the work gets tough. And I think CIR, we've been doing this so much and all the shift a little bit and dive into different places. Our roots are always in child abuse and violence. Yes, violence. And so that's hard and that can take a toll on you. And I think for a lot of different organizations that are in this work, it creates burnout or you have that staff turnover all the time.
So I want to talk a little bit about what you do individually to help you run a successful organization while also carrying the stress of that plus the content and your own stress and then also what you do to support your staff in those stressful times.
Sonia Sandoval-Edinger:
I can be slimed on but also don't watch any-- don't listen to bad news. I don't listen to crime podcasts. I don't watch Dateline. I don't watch any of those things, because-- and don't watch movies like that like. It's just that for me, I'm like I live that every day. I don't need-- I'd rather save that to help my staff than to put myself through it at night. Granted I wasn't always like that. Sometimes I just absorbed it all in until that saturation point--
Crystal Cardenas:
Tell the story about when you were at the roundtable because that was when you were absorbing.
Sonia Sandoval-Edinger:
Yeah, I went to a missing-- a family roundtable for parents whose kids had been abducted. Some of them recovered, some of them still missing, some of them were murdered. And it was like a giant room and all the Kleenex boxes between each seat, and they all had to tell their story. And I had heard stories, but never like 25 stories back to-- and they were all so sad. And here I was just a staff member here to support nonprofits.
And so it was very traumatic for me. Like really traumatic. And I remember I kind of freaked out-- not kind of. I really freaked out about my own kids at home because I had kids at home. I didn't want to trust anybody. Babysitters-- nobody. Like they just have to be with me for a while. And then I threw myself into-- you reminded me-- the books. Like I would read all the-- every novel from anyone who was taken and recovered. I read all of those.
And I feel like I wanted to hit that saturation point. Like I needed to as much as I could about it, and then I went the other end of I'm not going to watch any of it anymore. But it took a while to get over. And I remember thinking, I don't ever want anyone to deal with this. Like I will be the person that takes this on because I've done it, and I never want anyone to have to go through that. But remembering that so that when people go to our child forensic interview trainings, which are four days long and they're very, very requested-- so having people do those over and over, it's heavy.
Crystal Cardenas:
Yes.
Sonia Sandoval-Edinger:
Going to case things, case reviews, peer reviews. Those are heavy. So I think one-- we tried a lot of different things. But I think one of the things I feel like I tell people is when you're in a training, if you've got to get up and walk out, get up and walk out.
Crystal Cardenas:
Right.
It's really OK if they need to stand outside the door. If they need you, they'll come in and get you but there's no reason for you to sit and listen to those same things over and over.
Child abduction has some really hard stories, so I know when people first start, we'll be like you can listen to every single one, but if I were you and it's a lot, don't listen to this one and this one and this one. And the next time, you can listen to that.
Crystal Cardenas:
[laughing] Right.
Sonia Sandoval-Edinger:
But like taking in two days of it is really hard. But I think just paying attention to what people need and watching to see like, are they quieter than they used to be?
Are they talking about different things than they did before? Are they really enthusiastic about everything except for the content that they're working on? Maybe they need a break. Just asking and then reminding people that this is a safe place to be able to do that. And then giving examples. Like you have a great example of your stress when Olivia was little and you couldn't-- you're like I'm going to find-- you told me, I'm going to find another job. And I was like, oh my god, no.
Crystal Cardenas:
[laughing] Yeah.
Sonia Sandoval-Edinger:
We will figure it out. Let's figure out what to do. And so giving that example, I think, lets people know oh, they're-- because I think people don't believe us when they first come and we say we really do take care of our people. They really don't believe us.
Crystal Cardenas:
Right. And that's what I was going to say. I think that's one of the reasons why I was able to call you in that parking lot and tell you like I can't do this anymore. It was because you had already been vulnerable about the roundtable and all these things that impacted you and how challenging it was. And I remember-- because when I started, your kids were little so you were like I don't ever let them go to the park restroom by themselves because they can get abducted there and I know this case.
And so I had already heard those vulnerabilities of yours and the fears that you had. And I knew that one, you were a trusting person that I could tell and two, that you could relate that you understood that we see the world differently. Everyone is like, why are you so hypervigilant? And you're like, why are you not more concerned? Because something's going to happen to your kid.
Sonia Sandoval-Edinger:
And you feel validated.
Crystal Cardenas:
Yes.
Sonia Sandoval-Edinger:
Like I still-- my kids are teenagers, right? Well, one's an adult now, but I still have a teenager and when they meet a new person, and they're like I'm going to go to their house, I'm like, OK, give me their number, and I'm going to call the mom and I'm going to go up to the door and meet them. And sometimes the parents look at me like nobody ever does this, but it's like I have to know what your house looks like. I have to know who you are. I have to see you as a person.
And some of them love it, but there's very few people like that in the world anymore. And I feel like it was like that when I was growing up. Obviously my parents were strict. I think your parents were too.
Crystal Cardenas:
Yes, mine were too.
Sonia Sandoval-Edinger:
But I feel like now that there's phones, people feel like, oh, it's-- and I'm like, it's actually worse now. You really should start doing it. But yeah, it does feel-- it's validating--
Crystal Cardenas:
Yes.
Sonia Sandoval-Edinger:
--when you're around other people--
Crystal Cardenas:
For sure. Yes. I think that's something-- that's of great value and I hope that anyone who's listening who's in a supervisor role can really take that and run with it in their organizations because you do have to create that community in your organization and be vulnerable, especially as a supervisor because I think that you're always seeing in a different level. Even if you want to feel like you're among your peers, but they know that you have the control to fire them, to give them a raise, to demote them, to all the things and that's an unspoken dynamic that you have to be aware of.
Sonia Sandoval-Edinger:
And that was I think the biggest thing for me when I took on the role I'm in now. I was still the same person. I would still share my stories, but everyone sees you differently because you're the one that signs the paychecks and you're the one that makes the final decision on things. And when things are hard, they're like bring her in and she'll be the--
Crystal Cardenas:
Yes.
Sonia Sandoval-Edinger::
--the hammer. The hammer that I'm known as here, which I'm not a hammer, but still being that same like it's OK to be vulnerable, because all it can do is help.
Crystal Cardenas:
Awesome. All right. So we're going to wrap up soon, so I just want to thank you for your time with us. But as we end, I want to give you the opportunity to leave any tips or advice as you've navigated. I love the fact that you have been a coordinator and then a manager, and then a board member which is so unique. Not everybody-- and then after the board member, you're now an executive director.
So what advice would you leave them in terms of cultivating staff wellness, fun in the workplace, and especially those who are in a supervisor role?
Sonia Sandoval-Edinger:
Put yourself in their shoes. I mean, I think that's the biggest piece is to put yourself in their shoes and it's not always possible, but looking at what you have and your experiences and then say, OK, now if I had this added stress and this added stress, what would I do? A lot of times we say we hear the trauma stories all the time, and we think, oh my gosh, I don't even know how I would get out of bed after that and they do.
And so, like, putting yourself in that position whether you've experienced it yourself, and you could be like, I totally know how you feel or I have no idea how that feels. I can't imagine and then remembering that when you are interacting with them or offering some support or offering some flexibility or taking them off of a project, if it's too hard. Seeing how they're doing and seeing if their work is-- are they getting their work done? And maybe it's not because they're not working.
Maybe it's because the content is really hard or the project is really hard. So I think getting to know people, putting yourself in their shoes and building as much trust as you can so that they can come and talk to you. And if they-- and in our situation, I don't directly supervise many people. So then supporting your managers and modeling that I think makes a big difference. And then just letting people have fun.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
Crystal Cardenas:
To see Sonia's lessons on wellness, visit our show notes.
Aimee Hanna:
To see more of what we do, visit cirinc.org
To see the transcript for this episode, please visit our website or follow the link in the show notes.
Podcast Transcript
Why Wellness Matters Episode 2
Listen to the episode here: https://linkpop.com/rwyh
[MUSIC PLAYING]
[Teaser Intro]
Sonia Sandoval-Edinger:
It's trusting that people are going to do what they say they're going to do. And sometimes it means I don't know you. And so I'm going to just trust you.
[START]
Crystal Cardenas:
Hello, and welcome to our second episode of Remember Why You're Here. Today, we have our very own executive director Sonia Sandoval-Edinger. Sonia has over 16 years of experience overseeing projects dealing with abuse prevention, intervention and treatment on a state and national programs. Sonia has taken on several roles at CIR from project coordinator to project director to board member and now to executive director.
In addition to her work at CIR, Sonia has worked for the National Head Start Family Literacy Center where she developed culturally relevant curriculum for Head Start staff, parents, and community partners. She has organized and participated in multiple training events throughout the nation and worked with the pool of teachers across the United States to collect best practices and share them. I have been very fortunate to work alongside Sonia for the past 10 years.
She has shared her wisdom with me not only on project work, but also on how to be a great leader and supervisor. This is Crystal again hosting our second episode with our executive director Sonia. Hi, Sonia. Welcome.
Sonia Sandoval-Edinger:
Hi.
Crystal Cardenas:
Thank you so much for taking a break from all of your bookkeeping duties. For all the listeners, you all are dying to know that Sonia is doing bookkeeping and payroll today, so she had to take a break to join us. So I want to just start with what CIR is famous for. And, Sonia, we're famous for our fun committee. So can you tell me how it got started and a little bit about what we do?
Sonia Sandoval-Edinger:
So the fun committee-- I'm going to say probably historically it started because our content is hard. So people would go to CFIT, they'd come back, they'd be a little overwhelmed. They'd hear all these case studies, or we do Spanish speaking interviewing meetings, and they talk about interviews that happened, and it's heavy. And so we were trying to find ways to lighten things up a bit and have an outlet because we know we can't take this stuff home. You and I know that.
Try that and traumatize your spouses and your siblings, and so we can't take it home. So the only place we can deal with that typically is here. And not everybody here likes to deal with it. They don't necessarily want to talk about it. And so I think the fun committee was started because we wanted to build in ways to kind of release that stress and also a way to connect with each other. So we're North and South. So we have-- people may not know this, but we have an office in the North and an office in the South. And it's historically been hard to keep us connected because we don't have the funding to visit each other more than once a year. And so we rely a lot on-- it used to be phone calls.
Crystal Cardenas:
Right. That's what I was going to say that when I first started, Zoom wasn't a thing. When we did our webinars, it was on GoTo Meetings, and so that was like a big thing. And so you really just relied on phone calls and emails. And I think one of the first things that we really started with fun committee was the pumpkin decorating contest and that was like a big like North versus South and we're all going to line up our pumpkins and then post them on Facebook
Sonia Sandoval-Edinger:
And not say whose is whose.-
Crystal Cardenas:
Yeah.
Sonia Sandoval-Edinger:
Yeah, so I think that was a big one. And then we did like the birthday-- we always, I think, celebrated birthdays and anniversaries, but it became a thing. And then 12 Days of Christmas, I think, was the--
Crystal Cardenas:
Yes.
Sonia Sandoval-Edinger:
--holidays. And then I think it just got-- after, it was-- so that was what? Fall? And then December, I feel like we did the same year. And then I think we did a wellness challenge?
Crystal Cardenas:
Yes. Exactly.
Sonia Sandoval-Edinger:
But yeah, it was a way to incorporate the, I think, the wellness in general, but then also connect us to each other, and then just have fun. And so it's really morphed now because of Zoom. We've done like the Pictionary online with each other, which is really-
Crystal Cardenas:
Even Family Feud online.
Sonia Sandoval-Edinger:
We did those puzzles which were really, really hard. And the nice thing too that I like about the fun committee is it's not-- I have nothing to do with it. I mean, aside from giving them money--
Crystal Cardenas:
Right, the money.
Sonia Sandoval-Edinger:
--to do the thing for it, it all comes from the staff. Like you said, what their interests are in the month, what their interests are in the South, what's exciting for them. So it's, kind of, nice. It's all you all.
Crystal Cardenas:
Yeah, for sure. OK. So I know that we're going to get into this episode talking about wellness and what you do for CIR and how you focused and made sure that we maintain our culture throughout. But before we get into what are some of the things that you do with CIR, I wanted to talk about the pandemic and what shift you saw in the work culture and how that's informed you in how we do things now.
Sonia Sandoval-Edinger:
I feel like we did probably more with the fun committee to connect each other because one of the things at least in our, and maybe this isn't with everyone, but in our team, when we weren't physically in the same room, it's like you forget. We would chat each other a lot on Zoom, but when you're in an office together, you would just like get up and walk over and ask a question. And we didn't do that. You didn't like pick up the phone. You didn't just call somebody up to chat and be like, do you have time? Let's make an appointment. So it felt more formal.
Crystal Cardenas:
Right.
Sonia Sandoval-Edinger:
And I think it disconnected a lot of us. We started doing staff meetings once a week. We started to do more of “what kind of training do we want to do?” And then we did our fee for service, pay by seat is what we call them, because for a while, we always wanted to do certain topics that just don't fall into our grants and I think there's frustration there, with staff. And so we're like, let's try. Let's take a little risk and try and put on one event and see what happens. And if it goes well, then great. If not, then we learn, and then we figure out what to do next.
Crystal Cardenas:
What came out of the pandemic was that we looked at each staff as individuals. Each person has a certain need that needs to be met, right? And I really wanted to focus on their goals with them, and what is it that makes you happy and what are those passions. Even if it's something that we couldn't cultivate work wise, but we could cultivate within the staff.
Sonia Sandoval-Edinger:
In terms of supervising, I always felt like you can't treat everyone the same. Some people have parents that they're taking care of, some people have kids are taking care of, some people have health issues, some people are really introverted and just need some time by themselves. So I think everyone-- I've always come from the place that everyone needs different things. So equal doesn't look the same. Equal is whatever works for that person.
Crystal Cardenas:
Right.
And for me, personally, I like-- obviously, I don't have a commute. I live really close to our Southern office, but I like being able to come in, work, and then go home. Because when I'm at home-- during the pandemic, I worked all the time.
Crystal Cardenas:
Right.
Sonia Sandoval-Edinger:
The computer was in my kitchen. I was working at 6:00. I was working at 8:00 at night. It was not healthy for me. So for me, it gives me that boundary, and it allows-- it's just easier for me to talk to people in person.
And I think you feel like that too.
Crystal Cardenas:
Yes, exactly.
Sonia Sandoval-Edinger:
When you're here, you're like I feel like we're all meshing and doing really well together. And so it was hard for me to say, OK, we can be at home and how many days can we be at home? Because there was such a disconnect. I had the fear, with that pandemic, of the disconnect. But then just-- people needed stuff. People had long commutes, and people just liked having a couple of days at home. And so I can't remember when now– We said we would try a hybrid schedule where we'd pick two days to be-- that you could be at home. You could pick any two days that we wanted to make sure that everyone was in the office together at least one day because there's something about being all together. And then everyone got to pick and it's like let's see how it goes. And if the days don't work that you wanted to be home, then we'll readjust but we haven't really had to. And it's worked really well I think--
Crystal Cardenas:
And think what's funny is that as supervisors-- or at least for me as a supervisor, you do worry that people will just choose to be at home and not want to come back and what we've experienced, because it's been like two years now, is that people want to be in the office and that they want to be in the office when their co-workers are in the office. There's something to that. They want the conversations that are sparked, the energy, the building of relationships.
So I think that it is definitely a testament to just giving people that freedom to choose and knowing-- and also I think when you're looking at it from a supervisor point and not always thinking about the quantity of work, I think that is a fear that supervisors have is they're going to be at home and they're not going to work. And I think letting go of that and giving people-- like treating them as a responsible adult who cares about their job and knowing that they're going to get their work done.
Sonia Sandoval-Edinger:
And I think we're pretty good at looking at workloads for everybody, and trying to balance everything out. And I've always been like I think it's weird for people that are new. Like we're not to the minute people. We're not getting in at 8:00 and leaving at 5:00. We're like 8:15, 8:20 and then if you leave a little bit early, it's OK. It's more, are you getting your things done?
Crystal Cardenas:
Right.
Sonia Sandoval-Edinger:
Not how many things are you getting done. So I think it's a trust. It's trusting that people are going to do what they say they're going to do. And sometimes it means I don't know you, and so I'm going to just trust you, and then see what happens. And they really do come through. And I think it's just being aware like we have to let go a little bit and see what happens, and then adjust if we need to.
Crystal Cardenas:
For sure. So, kind of, on that, how do you handle it when someone new comes in or someone who you haven't built that strong trust with yet comes in and they ask you for a special request or an accommodation, even if they're not calling it that? How do you handle that as a supervisor?
Sonia Sandoval-Edinger:
When we say that we have this culture, we really do it. I think a lot of people don't believe us. I feel like we have staff that are like, are you serious that we can do that? And really did you mean it when you said? But we do.
Crystal Cardenas:
Yes.
Sonia Sandoval-Edinger:
So I think one, we model that from the beginning, so they can see that it's happening. And then I think just, kind of, watching and getting to know them. If someone asks cannot work at home a day or can I work one less day, because I'm struggling or can I take this week off because of whatever, if you're paying attention, you'll notice that maybe they're stressed. If you talk to them-- we do puzzle time here. Drink our coffee and do a little bit of puzzling in the morning or at lunch. And so talking to people and getting to know them. They're not going to share all of their stuff, but you'll get to a sense of like I go home and I do this or I have to walk in the morning-- I used to go running in the morning because it was like it would release my anxiety and my stress, and then I came in a better person. And so I think learning that and then that way, it's not so much of a surprise that they need it. And also, we don't know what people are going through.
Crystal Cardenas:
Right.
Sonia Sandoval-Edinger:
We don't know what everyone's going through. So if they're asking for something, one, they're asking which is a huge thing, right? And so why not try it? Like, if they need it, then they need it. And they're probably going to be a better employee because of it. And then I think when they don't ask, try to see are they needing something and then reminding them that we do-- because a lot of times what happens, I think, with us is they always say CIR is great when you have kids, right? Because we're super supportive, kids can come into the office, you bring your baby, you work at home a day. We're very good at that. But it's not just kids. Some people, it's their dogs. And it's like so then we used to bring dogs in. Bring your dog in with you–
Crystal Cardenas:
Right!
Sonia Sandoval-Edinger:
–or I have to go home because my dog is sick or like my dogs were like crazy, so we had to go for a walk during the day. Some of them are parents. Some of them are just good friends. Some of them are family friends.
So everyone has their own stuff. So it's not just-- when we say family, we're family, friend, pet, all of that. And just being supportive overall. And a lot of times we have to remind people of that. Like it's really OK. This is what we mean when we say flexibility.
Crystal Cardenas:
Now I want to shift and talk a little bit about when the work gets tough. And I think CIR, we've been doing this so much and all the shift a little bit and dive into different places. Our roots are always in child abuse and violence. Yes, violence. And so that's hard and that can take a toll on you. And I think for a lot of different organizations that are in this work, it creates burnout or you have that staff turnover all the time.
So I want to talk a little bit about what you do individually to help you run a successful organization while also carrying the stress of that plus the content and your own stress and then also what you do to support your staff in those stressful times.
Sonia Sandoval-Edinger:
I can be slimed on but also don't watch any-- don't listen to bad news. I don't listen to crime podcasts. I don't watch Dateline. I don't watch any of those things, because-- and don't watch movies like that like. It's just that for me, I'm like I live that every day. I don't need-- I'd rather save that to help my staff than to put myself through it at night. Granted I wasn't always like that. Sometimes I just absorbed it all in until that saturation point--
Crystal Cardenas:
Tell the story about when you were at the roundtable because that was when you were absorbing.
Sonia Sandoval-Edinger:
Yeah, I went to a missing-- a family roundtable for parents whose kids had been abducted. Some of them recovered, some of them still missing, some of them were murdered. And it was like a giant room and all the Kleenex boxes between each seat, and they all had to tell their story. And I had heard stories, but never like 25 stories back to-- and they were all so sad. And here I was just a staff member here to support nonprofits.
And so it was very traumatic for me. Like really traumatic. And I remember I kind of freaked out-- not kind of. I really freaked out about my own kids at home because I had kids at home. I didn't want to trust anybody. Babysitters-- nobody. Like they just have to be with me for a while. And then I threw myself into-- you reminded me-- the books. Like I would read all the-- every novel from anyone who was taken and recovered. I read all of those.
And I feel like I wanted to hit that saturation point. Like I needed to as much as I could about it, and then I went the other end of I'm not going to watch any of it anymore. But it took a while to get over. And I remember thinking, I don't ever want anyone to deal with this. Like I will be the person that takes this on because I've done it, and I never want anyone to have to go through that. But remembering that so that when people go to our child forensic interview trainings, which are four days long and they're very, very requested-- so having people do those over and over, it's heavy.
Crystal Cardenas:
Yes.
Sonia Sandoval-Edinger:
Going to case things, case reviews, peer reviews. Those are heavy. So I think one-- we tried a lot of different things. But I think one of the things I feel like I tell people is when you're in a training, if you've got to get up and walk out, get up and walk out.
Crystal Cardenas:
Right.
It's really OK if they need to stand outside the door. If they need you, they'll come in and get you but there's no reason for you to sit and listen to those same things over and over.
Child abduction has some really hard stories, so I know when people first start, we'll be like you can listen to every single one, but if I were you and it's a lot, don't listen to this one and this one and this one. And the next time, you can listen to that.
Crystal Cardenas:
[laughing] Right.
Sonia Sandoval-Edinger:
But like taking in two days of it is really hard. But I think just paying attention to what people need and watching to see like, are they quieter than they used to be?
Are they talking about different things than they did before? Are they really enthusiastic about everything except for the content that they're working on? Maybe they need a break. Just asking and then reminding people that this is a safe place to be able to do that. And then giving examples. Like you have a great example of your stress when Olivia was little and you couldn't-- you're like I'm going to find-- you told me, I'm going to find another job. And I was like, oh my god, no.
Crystal Cardenas:
[laughing] Yeah.
Sonia Sandoval-Edinger:
We will figure it out. Let's figure out what to do. And so giving that example, I think, lets people know oh, they're-- because I think people don't believe us when they first come and we say we really do take care of our people. They really don't believe us.
Crystal Cardenas:
Right. And that's what I was going to say. I think that's one of the reasons why I was able to call you in that parking lot and tell you like I can't do this anymore. It was because you had already been vulnerable about the roundtable and all these things that impacted you and how challenging it was. And I remember-- because when I started, your kids were little so you were like I don't ever let them go to the park restroom by themselves because they can get abducted there and I know this case.
And so I had already heard those vulnerabilities of yours and the fears that you had. And I knew that one, you were a trusting person that I could tell and two, that you could relate that you understood that we see the world differently. Everyone is like, why are you so hypervigilant? And you're like, why are you not more concerned? Because something's going to happen to your kid.
Sonia Sandoval-Edinger:
And you feel validated.
Crystal Cardenas:
Yes.
Sonia Sandoval-Edinger:
Like I still-- my kids are teenagers, right? Well, one's an adult now, but I still have a teenager and when they meet a new person, and they're like I'm going to go to their house, I'm like, OK, give me their number, and I'm going to call the mom and I'm going to go up to the door and meet them. And sometimes the parents look at me like nobody ever does this, but it's like I have to know what your house looks like. I have to know who you are. I have to see you as a person.
And some of them love it, but there's very few people like that in the world anymore. And I feel like it was like that when I was growing up. Obviously my parents were strict. I think your parents were too.
Crystal Cardenas:
Yes, mine were too.
Sonia Sandoval-Edinger:
But I feel like now that there's phones, people feel like, oh, it's-- and I'm like, it's actually worse now. You really should start doing it. But yeah, it does feel-- it's validating--
Crystal Cardenas:
Yes.
Sonia Sandoval-Edinger:
--when you're around other people--
Crystal Cardenas:
For sure. Yes. I think that's something-- that's of great value and I hope that anyone who's listening who's in a supervisor role can really take that and run with it in their organizations because you do have to create that community in your organization and be vulnerable, especially as a supervisor because I think that you're always seeing in a different level. Even if you want to feel like you're among your peers, but they know that you have the control to fire them, to give them a raise, to demote them, to all the things and that's an unspoken dynamic that you have to be aware of.
Sonia Sandoval-Edinger:
And that was I think the biggest thing for me when I took on the role I'm in now. I was still the same person. I would still share my stories, but everyone sees you differently because you're the one that signs the paychecks and you're the one that makes the final decision on things. And when things are hard, they're like bring her in and she'll be the--
Crystal Cardenas:
Yes.
Sonia Sandoval-Edinger::
--the hammer. The hammer that I'm known as here, which I'm not a hammer, but still being that same like it's OK to be vulnerable, because all it can do is help.
Crystal Cardenas:
Awesome. All right. So we're going to wrap up soon, so I just want to thank you for your time with us. But as we end, I want to give you the opportunity to leave any tips or advice as you've navigated. I love the fact that you have been a coordinator and then a manager, and then a board member which is so unique. Not everybody-- and then after the board member, you're now an executive director.
So what advice would you leave them in terms of cultivating staff wellness, fun in the workplace, and especially those who are in a supervisor role?
Sonia Sandoval-Edinger:
Put yourself in their shoes. I mean, I think that's the biggest piece is to put yourself in their shoes and it's not always possible, but looking at what you have and your experiences and then say, OK, now if I had this added stress and this added stress, what would I do? A lot of times we say we hear the trauma stories all the time, and we think, oh my gosh, I don't even know how I would get out of bed after that and they do.
And so, like, putting yourself in that position whether you've experienced it yourself, and you could be like, I totally know how you feel or I have no idea how that feels. I can't imagine and then remembering that when you are interacting with them or offering some support or offering some flexibility or taking them off of a project, if it's too hard. Seeing how they're doing and seeing if their work is-- are they getting their work done? And maybe it's not because they're not working.
Maybe it's because the content is really hard or the project is really hard. So I think getting to know people, putting yourself in their shoes and building as much trust as you can so that they can come and talk to you. And if they-- and in our situation, I don't directly supervise many people. So then supporting your managers and modeling that I think makes a big difference. And then just letting people have fun.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
Crystal Cardenas:
To see Sonia's lessons on wellness, visit our show notes.
Aimee Hanna:
To see more of what we do, visit cirinc.org
To see the transcript for this episode, please visit our website or follow the link in the show notes.
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