Episode 18 Transcript
Motherly Love Outside of the Binary (ft. Natalie Perkins)
[MUSIC PLAYING]
Crystal Cardenas:
Natalie Perkins is the executive director of the Center forInnovation and Resources, bringing over 17 years of combined experience in nonprofit leadership and corporate management.For the past five years, Natalie has been dedicated to the nonprofit sector, driving impactful change and leading with a compassionate, people-centered approach. Outside of work,Natalie is a mother of two and has been married for 20 years.
As a proud ally of the LGBTQ plus community, she supports hereldest daughter, who is transgender and advocates for inclusivity in all aspects of life. Natalie is excited to continueexpanding the impact of CIR, ensuring its mission reaches morepeople and strengthens the community. She is driven by thebelief that meaningful change begins with compassionateleadership, and she is committed to carrying this vision forward.
Hi, Natalie. How are you?
Natalie Perkins:
Hi, Crystal. I'm great.
Crystal Cardenas:
For our listeners, I call her Natalie in honorof her British accent. So excited to have you on. I cannot believeit has taken this long to get our executive director, NataliePerkins, on our show. Natalie, can you tell us a little bit aboutyourself and what it was like growing up because I know youhave a very interesting story and a unique background.
Natalie Perkins:
So I was born in Scotland and moved a lot as a child. My fatherwas a computer guru, if you will, and a lot of big companies,banks, and things hired him to set up their programming. And sowe moved a lot. So I was born in Scotland. England was kind ofalways our home base, but also lived in Nigeria, and Argentina,and then moved here to the States when I was 11, when myparents got divorced.
And have been here ever since?
And now sound like this.
[LAUGHTER]
Crystal Cardenas:
I remember the first time she told me, I'm like, what? Becauseshe doesn't have an accent. But then randomly, it'll come out,which is so funny. You are so unique in the differentbackgrounds and the places you've lived. And I think that's socool. And when you talk to Natalie, you can see all of theexperience and wisdom that comes out of your life experiences.
Natalie Perkins:
It was a very fortunate upbringing, and I think that the exposure to different cultures and just life lessons that were learned are so much more valuable than anything I got in school. Those are your formative years, and I really think that they had everything to do with who I am and where I am, and I'm grateful for it.
Crystal Cardenas:
Yeah. So what drew you to CIR?
Natalie Perkins:
Well, I'll be really candid and say that I really didn't know much about CIR until I was approached. But as I started to learn more, it was just a very unique niche perspective of things. And not something I'd ever been involved with before, but something that you walk away every day feeling like you're making a difference. You're having an impact on people.
And while we're not direct service, we're touching lives through the work that we do. Helping the helpers by training those thatare directly interacting with people who are going through theworst of the worst. And making sure that they do that in the most trauma-informed manner that they can and hoping that they have the best experience possible given the circumstances they're under.
Crystal Cardenas:
Absolutely. And I think for me, I've been at CIR 11 years now, and what keeps me here is the work that we do and the fact that we are so agile and moving in different directions and serving different underserved populations. For a second there, I forgot that the listeners don't work with us, and they don't know all of the ins and outs.
Natalie Perkins:
What do we do?
Crystal Cardenas:
I want to take just a second-- yeah-- on to talk about what CIR does. So our two longest standing projects are the Child AbuseTraining and Technical Assistance project, which is known asCATTA. CATTA focuses specifically on child sexual abuse and child forensic interview training. And then we have the ChildAbduction Training project, where we work with the CaliforniaChild Abduction Task Force, and we provide trainings and resources across California to professionals who may work a child abduction case.
The really cool thing about both of those projects is that they are multidisciplinary focused. So that is the key to both of those projects, is that we want to include anyone in those professions who may encounter a child who is sexually abused or may be abducted. And then some of the other projects that CIR has been funded for and that I've been privileged to work on isAbility Central project, focused on training professionals who could work with victims who had a disability.
And we also, in the second year of it, which was so cool, is we were able to build leaders and trainers that could also go out into their own regions and continue to train, which was really great because we are really focused on sustainability and keeping that work that we're doing alive. CIR is also done anunderserved populations training project. But we did trainingsfor service providers who worked with LGBTQ youth, fosteryouth, victims with disabilities, and male victims.
We also had a diversity project. We did training on victims whowere of limited English efficiency, victims who were immigrants,and people of color. And then most recently, we've been able todo a lot of online course building around child sexual abuseprotocols, that kind of thing. So those are some of the big projects. CIR had other projects as well, but we really do try to keep true to our core, which is serving children and families who are impacted by violence.
So what's your favorite part of working at CIR?
Natalie Perkins:
I always tell people we have a really unique culture to our organization. So spend half your life at work. Hopefully, you love what you do, although there are a lot of people who are not that fortunate. But at most, you want to go to an environment that'shealthy, that feels good. And there's a saying and we have it upon our wall here in the office about the culture of your organization is how do you feel on a Sunday night.
And it is, it's a privilege to come here every day. We're veryfamily-focused. We're very focused on the health and well-beingof our employees. It's just a really special place where it definitely feels I hope that everybody continues to feel safe, and heard, and respected, and we just really prioritize that work-life balance. And I think that unfortunately, that's not as commonplace as it should be.
On top of that, knowing that we're doing really good work and really trying to make a difference and impacting the lives of people who are out there doing really, really hard work. And that feels good.
Crystal Cardenas:
All right. So now on the other end, what's been the biggest challenge in running a nonprofit now that you're the executive director?
Natalie Perkins:
Running a nonprofit.
[LAUGHTER]
Natalie Perkins:
Nonprofit world is a very different world. And so when you're predominantly funded by grants, you're at the mercy of the opportunities that are out there, and it's competitive. So yeah, that's definitely been, I think, my biggest obstacle, if you will, is just mastering that and really making sure that we are putting ourselves out there.
And the beauty of it is that we've had our hands in all these different buckets and being able to really expand on that and expand our impact on what we do is really exciting to me. So yeah, it's a challenge, but it's an exciting challenge because there's so much potential out there for what we can do.
Crystal Cardenas:
Absolutely. And I think for us, what I get frustrated about is that the people who know us know that we do get great work. And I think we are a solid resource for a lot of different agencies with in the State of California. The problem is there are so many people who don't know us--
Natalie Perkins:
Don't know us.
Crystal Cardenas:
--And then I think even with the nature of our trainings, there are so many different sectors that don't want to bring child sexual abuse, child abductions, violence into their workforce or to into their families and parents and bring that to light. And I think that's a hard balance. And I think for me, it feels the funds are so limited in this realm. And I always tell people, in grants, there's always the trendy, that buzz word that people are looking for.
And then all of a sudden there's a shift in all the grants are going towards that. And you have to make sure that you're applying forthat. And the reality is that kids are being sexually abused every single day. Kids are abducted or go missing every single day. And family violence is happening every single day. And I think that's why it's a struggle because we're trying to stay true to that.
But I think that's also the beauty of the fact that we offer customized trainings. So people hear about us and maybe they think we're pigeonholed to only child sexual abuse or only child abduction, but we're not. You need a training. You need some help and some guidance on how to do that and how to bring in those experts.
Natalie Perkins:
And the great thing about that is it expands our capacities as well. We're learning new things, and new topics, and meeting new people. And I think we've had some really successful andexciting trainings that have come from that avenue.
[LAUGHS]
Crystal Cardenas:
Absolutely. So if you were given $1 million grant, what would you do with that?
Natalie Perkins:
It would definitely go in the disability's realm. For me, once you start learning about all of the downfalls and how much we as a society are failing that community, it is really impossible to ignore. Given our niche, and I know this is something that we're actively working on, but I really would love to focus on bringing the training that we currently provide to that population because it's needed.
Who's taking care of those kids? Who's those kids that struggle to communicate or are taken advantage of and overlooked for a multitude of reasons, be it physical or mental.
Way more outside caretakers than the average child because of those needs and those supports and not all of those folks have positive intentions.
Crystal Cardenas:
Correct.
Natalie Perkins:
And the really big one for me is taking the stigma away from it. Ithink there's a lot of discomfort in general in the world. When somebody is different, how do I act? How do I treat them justlike any other person. They're a person too. There's no differentway you need to treat them. Maybe there are some accommodations, absolutely. But they're just like you and me. They have feelings. They have thoughts. They have needs. And it's just making sure that they're treated with that dignity.
And that when they're being treated for something or spoken to that, they're the ones you're interacting with, not this person over here that maybe is translating for them or is helping. Yes, they're a part of it. But that's not who you're dealing with. You're dealing with this person in front of you, and really making sure that they're treated in that manner.
Crystal Cardenas:
I want to switch gears a little bit because one of the things that I love you for is your continued advocacy for the LGBTQ community.
Natalie Perkins:
You want to make me cry is what I'm hearing.
[LAUGHTER]
Natalie Perkins:
Just a tiny bit. Just a little bit.
Crystal Cardenas:
Just a couple tears. OK.
Natalie Perkins:
But it is such a big part of. And I think that I have been privileged enough to know you and just how accepting and warm you have been with your child and how-- not just that, but how now you have really spoken out and you're really trying to help other parents understand their kids and to just accept everyone for who they are. So tell us a little bit about your experience raisinga trans kid.
So back when Beau was in fourth grade, we just started to notice a shift in their personality and their comfort, let's say, within themselves. There was a very almost overnight change in absolutely despising having their picture taken. And then we moved out of state and they became a little more withdrawn.
And the move was hard for everybody. And so I just chalked it upto puberty is on the horizon that we just moved. And just lifechanges. There's a lot happening, we have a pretty open family with the good communication. And so that hadn't changedintensely. So I felt, like, you could chalk it up to a number ofthings and it's just adolescence. We moved back here.
And then in-- I think it was ninth grade, came to my husband and myself and wanted to talk to us and let us know that they were non-binary. I had very, very limited understanding of whatthat meant. And so Beau educated us, and I'll say that it was lifejarring. I mean, it really rocked our worlds, and was very difficult for us on different levels. And we continue to have conversations, but it was a lot to process, especially for our generation.
My husband really, really struggled and felt like if I had just spent more time with him as a child, maybe things would be different.And immediately my response was that-- here come the tears--he's not broken. There's nothing to repair. It's a feeling. They feel like they're in the wrong body. That must be absolutelyhorrible. I can't imagine.
So fast forward, over the last few years, we tried to really provide a safe space for them to really explore what this meant and find out who they are. And Beau now considers themselvesto be a trans woman. She feels more feminine than anything else, more regularly. And so really feels that is the body she wasmeant to be in. Unfortunately for her, the big struggle is that she is 6 foot 3, with a baritone voice.
And we knew when we started to come out to friends and family that we would probably lose some friends over this. Because not everybody can get past things. And you know what, to each their own, that's on you. At the end of the day, that is still the same person that has always been my child, my first born. That hasn't changed.
And so if you loved them at one point, same person. They just feel differently. And that's none of your business, how I feel. I'mvery-- as you can tell, passionate about it. They're still our kids.They need our love. They need our support. They don't need more trauma or stress added on to this already very difficult thing that they're going through. And so don't be selfish. It's not about you. It's about them and how you can support them.
And when you chose to be a parent, along with that comes unconditional love. Is it uncomfortable? Yeah. Is it hard? 100%. Does it make for some awkward conversations and reactions? Yeah, it doesn't feel good all the time. But I will choose themevery minute of every day over anybody. So go on with our lives. But there doesn't need to be negativity brought into it just because you don't agree with it.
And so I think for me, the education piece is so important because there are a lot of assumptions made. We've had fortunately amazing support from our community of friends and family. And do all the family get it? No. That's OK. It's hard. I getit. In time. But daily I am in awe of Beau and she chose to wear a gown for senior prom and that was a defining moment for us that was terrifying. But again, was incredibly well-received bypeople.
And I had a choice in that moment when she came to me. We had a suit. We were ready to go. And she said, how would youfeel if I wore a dress? And I had a choice to make in that moment. I could prioritize myself, and my fears, and my concerns, and I could say, I don't think it's a good idea. Youshould wear the suit. Or I could allow her this moment of complete bravery and authenticity to be herself.
And in that process, letting her know that we're behind you 1,000%. And that's what we did. And she still looks back at thatand loves that she wore the gown and had a night where she feltamazing. And that's worth everything.
Crystal Cardenas:
Oh, my gosh. I'm getting teary eyed over here, too, just-- I really appreciate your vulnerability and you're willing to share that because it is difficult to bridge that generation gap, where people are very quick to judge you and get mad at you fo rsaying the wrong things, thinking the wrong things, feeling the wrong things, misstepping, and I think that is very challenging.
And as you're navigating parenting, and adjusting, and accepting, and evolving your relationship with someone who is transitioning or who someone who has just come out as a heterosexual female, I get nervous about saying the wrong things and making sure that I'm being supportive and politically correct and all that stuff. And so one of the things that I remember so much and I feel so grateful to be your friend through all of this because I have learned so much.
One of the things I remember is that you would say, why do I have to say anything? Why do I have to talk like it's the same? And all of Beau's friends got it. And it was so easy and so great. And that's I think one of the beauties of being young, being open-minded, and being really accepting. And also one of the downfalls of us, in our 40s, and 50s, and 60s is that it's a way bigger shift for us than it is for the youth.
Natalie Perkins:
And so in so many ways, I'm so grateful that it is not a big deal.It's like, ta-da.
And that's one of the big pieces that we took away from this. Is when we were going through this, I told Beau, I said, I need a minute to grieve the life that I envisioned for you as my son. Myhopes and dreams for you as my son. Honestly, she didn't really get it. And there was some frustration for her because from her perspective, nothing's changed. It's not that big a deal.
For her, this generation, it's for the majority. There are still thosethat completely disagree with it. But for a majority of these kidstoday, it's a non-conversation-- like it doesn't matter. You canidentify us whatever you want. Don't care. The change we've seen in her over the last few years is remarkable.
I mean, just such a happier, more outgoing, confident person, and that's all you ever want for your kids. And so every day it reaffirms that we made the right decisions as a family and the way we're handling everything. But yeah. There's just a need for just kindness.
At the end of the day, it's the same with people living with disabilities and everybody's got something going on, most of things are invisible. So it just right, it costs nothing to be kind.
Crystal Cardenas:
As we were talking, Natalie, and we were talking about Beau'sfriends and that group, how great was it. Was it the same experience with your daughter, with your younger daughter?
Natalie Perkins:
So my youngest, initially was excited because now she had her gay best friend.
[LAUGHS]
She had a sister. And that was exciting. She helps with her hair and her makeup if she was wearing makeup, things like that. But then she struggled, and she had to grapple with the fact that she lost her big brother. And while she wants desperately to beBeau's number one ally and supporter, she also had to go through her adjusting.
And there was a brief period when we couldn't really talk to just anybody about it because Beau didn't want us to yet. We were still navigating things as a family, and that was one of the conversations we had, was like, we all need somebody to speak to. So whether it's that we seek out a therapist or everybody gets to tell one friend, whoever your person is, we all need somebody to talk to. As close as we are, I'm not what she alwaysneeds. She needs peers.
And same for us. That's lovely that I can speak to my then 12-year-old about it. But that's not who I need. And my husbandalso needs another male to speak to. It just-- but when it was necessary and it came up, it happened. And so I think we sort of collectively figured out what everybody needed, gave each other that space, and now she doesn't have a brother. She has a sister.
People she doesn't know or does know, she always talks about her sister. This is my sister. And she's very protective. They havea fantastic relationship now. It's better than it's been in a long time.
Crystal Cardenas:
Oh, that's awesome. And I just want to commend you, and yourfamily, and your husband, because it is difficult. And I think sometimes as a parent and as individual peoples on the outside, it is harder to understand why you can't adjust to the transition.It's like Beau is correct in that, she didn't change. She still is the same person.
But I think one of the things that I see as an outsider is that Beau had time to process and decide all of this ahead of time without you. So by the time Beau tells you, she's same person. But now,here's what I was truly thinking and navigating for so long andI'm telling you and you also needed that time to process andnavigate and deal with all the feelings of guilt. Did I do enough?Did I not? Was I supportive? All these things where saying, oh,maybe I shouldn't have said this.
Oh, well, and it's like the hopes and dreams comment, where Ineed to more-- and Beau's was like, what are you talking about?I can still do all of those things. You're right. You can. Looks alittle different. But all those things are still 100%. So I can now understand their frustration and like, what are you talking? Idon't understand. I can still do all these things. I'm the sameperson.
That's why I'm so excited about the ALLY project and thiseducation piece that we're doing for parents that we've been sograteful to receive donations for, but what's still more. A little plug there. We'd still like more to do more is because there is agap. And I think we really need just folks to help us understand these dynamics of you-- even though you may not, you may be doing everything intentionally possible to found supportive.
There are things that the younger generations are looking at that maybe are not a thing for them and they're not quite sure why you can't just get on board. We really need something to bridge that gap with the generations. I think as everybody gets older,and our young generations are now the elders. I hope that we're not going to have these problems anymore. But right now, yeah, we're in a transition time, where we're a lot more accepting, but we're still not all the way there.
Natalie Perkins
We have a long way to go. We have a long way to go. And theeducation piece is important. And there's simple ways to do it and simple conversations you can have just to make it more layman's terms, if you will, just more relatable, which is really the approach I would like to take. But there's also another side to it where families need to know that there's support out there.
That if you don't have anybody else in your life going through this, who do you talk to about it? Who do you haveconversations with, because it's lonely. It can be lonely,depending on where you are. I'm sitting here telling you about it's been a relatively positive experience for us. And I am veryaware that is not the norm. But I also still make plenty ofmistakes.
Even this week, I had a business meeting and we were just talking about family, and he said, your oldest, that's your son, correct? And I had a choice in that moment to either, no, actuallymy daughter, or well, yeah, actually, my trans daughter and I didnone of that. I said yes. And like, I have beaten myself up over that ever since.
And it wasn't intentional. It wasn't something I thought about. Itjust was this going to be so much easier and faster. I've just,yes. Yeah. But that felt really icky. It didn't feel good. And sothat's where I can do better. I know better and I should havedone better. And next time I will. It's a constant evolvingeducation. You're constantly learning. You're constantly trying todo better.
And really, at the end of the day, these beautiful humans just need to know that you're trying. Just try. It's OK if you make an error, but just try, because that is so validating for them. Andthat lets them know that you hear them, you see them, youaccept them, and you're doing your best as opposed to justdismissing them and not even trying. That's hurtful. That feelshurtful for them. And that's what we need to avoid.
I think one of the biggest takeaways is for people to rememberthat it's OK to make mistakes. We make mistakes in all aspectsof our lives. And as a parent, I know that it's even harder to lookback and reflect on the mistakes that you make as a parent. But also our mistakes are what help us grow and our children learn from how we handle those mistakes.
And I think our children learn mostly by our vulnerability andsaying, I don't always say the right things. I don't always do theright thing. But I am sorry, and I am trying, and I want to do thebest I can for you. And I want to be there to support you. So I think it's really important that anyone who's struggling remembers that and just keeps that in the forefront as they continue to navigate parenting and try to be the best parent they can for these kids.
Crystal Cardenas:
Natalie, after going through this, what would you say to a parent whose child just came out to them?
Natalie Perkins:
So this did recently happen to me. And the biggest thing I saidwas, number one, they're still your child. Still the same personthat you love and know, that this is really hard for them andeducation is your friend. So I listed some resources that I have used that I recommended to her, and said, you have to try and have to get on board quickly.
And the pronouns is the number one thing. And that was her bigstruggle. But again, that's your first way to show them thatthey're seen and understood and you're trying. And to them, itreally is. It's the simplest thing you can do is those pronouns.And if you dismiss it, it doesn't go well with them. It's not well-received. So just try and it's uncomfortable, but sit-in thatspace.
And just seek out the support where you can, friends, or hopefully family members, somewhere in your-- is there community group. Is there, a therapist, somebody. You have to find an outlet for yourself and a safe space for you to process this. But at the same time, you just need your child to know that they're loved and you may not understand it, but you're trying.And that you still love them. That's the most important thing.
Crystal Cardenas:
Absolutely. Absolutely. And hopefully with our ALLY project, we can help some of those parents who are--
Natalie Perkins:
Yeah. I'm excited for us to be able to put out some resources for people so that-- it's from podcast episodes, to hopefully some free online webinars, hopefully some printed materials that you can-- just quick, easy guides that you can reference.
Quick, easy, definitions, relatable information so that it takes the complexity out of it and really helps you just to see-- let's keep it simple. And this is really at the heart of it, what's important and what you need to know to support your child.
Crystal Cardenas:
Yes, definitely. Well, thank you, Natalie, for your time. Thank you for your vulnerability and thank you for being such an amazing leader for us here at CIR.
Natalie Perkins:
Thank you.
Crystal Cardenas:
To help CIR, donate directly to the ALLY for Parents Project.With your donation, we will be able to create educational content to guide parents and guardians with supporting theirLGBTQ plus children. Donate at cirinc.org/donate.
We encourage you to donate to CIR and the ALLY for Parents Project. Help us make the change in the LGBTQ+ communities.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
Thank you so much for listening to another episode of Remember Why You're Here. To access the transcript for this episode and to learn more about what we do at CIR, please visit our website at cirinc.org Until next time.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
Episode 18 Transcript
Motherly Love Outside of the Binary (ft. Natalie Perkins)
[MUSIC PLAYING]
Crystal Cardenas:
Natalie Perkins is the executive director of the Center forInnovation and Resources, bringing over 17 years of combined experience in nonprofit leadership and corporate management.For the past five years, Natalie has been dedicated to the nonprofit sector, driving impactful change and leading with a compassionate, people-centered approach. Outside of work,Natalie is a mother of two and has been married for 20 years.
As a proud ally of the LGBTQ plus community, she supports hereldest daughter, who is transgender and advocates for inclusivity in all aspects of life. Natalie is excited to continueexpanding the impact of CIR, ensuring its mission reaches morepeople and strengthens the community. She is driven by thebelief that meaningful change begins with compassionateleadership, and she is committed to carrying this vision forward.
Hi, Natalie. How are you?
Natalie Perkins:
Hi, Crystal. I'm great.
Crystal Cardenas:
For our listeners, I call her Natalie in honorof her British accent. So excited to have you on. I cannot believeit has taken this long to get our executive director, NataliePerkins, on our show. Natalie, can you tell us a little bit aboutyourself and what it was like growing up because I know youhave a very interesting story and a unique background.
Natalie Perkins:
So I was born in Scotland and moved a lot as a child. My fatherwas a computer guru, if you will, and a lot of big companies,banks, and things hired him to set up their programming. And sowe moved a lot. So I was born in Scotland. England was kind ofalways our home base, but also lived in Nigeria, and Argentina,and then moved here to the States when I was 11, when myparents got divorced.
And have been here ever since?
And now sound like this.
[LAUGHTER]
Crystal Cardenas:
I remember the first time she told me, I'm like, what? Becauseshe doesn't have an accent. But then randomly, it'll come out,which is so funny. You are so unique in the differentbackgrounds and the places you've lived. And I think that's socool. And when you talk to Natalie, you can see all of theexperience and wisdom that comes out of your life experiences.
Natalie Perkins:
It was a very fortunate upbringing, and I think that the exposure to different cultures and just life lessons that were learned are so much more valuable than anything I got in school. Those are your formative years, and I really think that they had everything to do with who I am and where I am, and I'm grateful for it.
Crystal Cardenas:
Yeah. So what drew you to CIR?
Natalie Perkins:
Well, I'll be really candid and say that I really didn't know much about CIR until I was approached. But as I started to learn more, it was just a very unique niche perspective of things. And not something I'd ever been involved with before, but something that you walk away every day feeling like you're making a difference. You're having an impact on people.
And while we're not direct service, we're touching lives through the work that we do. Helping the helpers by training those thatare directly interacting with people who are going through theworst of the worst. And making sure that they do that in the most trauma-informed manner that they can and hoping that they have the best experience possible given the circumstances they're under.
Crystal Cardenas:
Absolutely. And I think for me, I've been at CIR 11 years now, and what keeps me here is the work that we do and the fact that we are so agile and moving in different directions and serving different underserved populations. For a second there, I forgot that the listeners don't work with us, and they don't know all of the ins and outs.
Natalie Perkins:
What do we do?
Crystal Cardenas:
I want to take just a second-- yeah-- on to talk about what CIR does. So our two longest standing projects are the Child AbuseTraining and Technical Assistance project, which is known asCATTA. CATTA focuses specifically on child sexual abuse and child forensic interview training. And then we have the ChildAbduction Training project, where we work with the CaliforniaChild Abduction Task Force, and we provide trainings and resources across California to professionals who may work a child abduction case.
The really cool thing about both of those projects is that they are multidisciplinary focused. So that is the key to both of those projects, is that we want to include anyone in those professions who may encounter a child who is sexually abused or may be abducted. And then some of the other projects that CIR has been funded for and that I've been privileged to work on isAbility Central project, focused on training professionals who could work with victims who had a disability.
And we also, in the second year of it, which was so cool, is we were able to build leaders and trainers that could also go out into their own regions and continue to train, which was really great because we are really focused on sustainability and keeping that work that we're doing alive. CIR is also done anunderserved populations training project. But we did trainingsfor service providers who worked with LGBTQ youth, fosteryouth, victims with disabilities, and male victims.
We also had a diversity project. We did training on victims whowere of limited English efficiency, victims who were immigrants,and people of color. And then most recently, we've been able todo a lot of online course building around child sexual abuseprotocols, that kind of thing. So those are some of the big projects. CIR had other projects as well, but we really do try to keep true to our core, which is serving children and families who are impacted by violence.
So what's your favorite part of working at CIR?
Natalie Perkins:
I always tell people we have a really unique culture to our organization. So spend half your life at work. Hopefully, you love what you do, although there are a lot of people who are not that fortunate. But at most, you want to go to an environment that'shealthy, that feels good. And there's a saying and we have it upon our wall here in the office about the culture of your organization is how do you feel on a Sunday night.
And it is, it's a privilege to come here every day. We're veryfamily-focused. We're very focused on the health and well-beingof our employees. It's just a really special place where it definitely feels I hope that everybody continues to feel safe, and heard, and respected, and we just really prioritize that work-life balance. And I think that unfortunately, that's not as commonplace as it should be.
On top of that, knowing that we're doing really good work and really trying to make a difference and impacting the lives of people who are out there doing really, really hard work. And that feels good.
Crystal Cardenas:
All right. So now on the other end, what's been the biggest challenge in running a nonprofit now that you're the executive director?
Natalie Perkins:
Running a nonprofit.
[LAUGHTER]
Natalie Perkins:
Nonprofit world is a very different world. And so when you're predominantly funded by grants, you're at the mercy of the opportunities that are out there, and it's competitive. So yeah, that's definitely been, I think, my biggest obstacle, if you will, is just mastering that and really making sure that we are putting ourselves out there.
And the beauty of it is that we've had our hands in all these different buckets and being able to really expand on that and expand our impact on what we do is really exciting to me. So yeah, it's a challenge, but it's an exciting challenge because there's so much potential out there for what we can do.
Crystal Cardenas:
Absolutely. And I think for us, what I get frustrated about is that the people who know us know that we do get great work. And I think we are a solid resource for a lot of different agencies with in the State of California. The problem is there are so many people who don't know us--
Natalie Perkins:
Don't know us.
Crystal Cardenas:
--And then I think even with the nature of our trainings, there are so many different sectors that don't want to bring child sexual abuse, child abductions, violence into their workforce or to into their families and parents and bring that to light. And I think that's a hard balance. And I think for me, it feels the funds are so limited in this realm. And I always tell people, in grants, there's always the trendy, that buzz word that people are looking for.
And then all of a sudden there's a shift in all the grants are going towards that. And you have to make sure that you're applying forthat. And the reality is that kids are being sexually abused every single day. Kids are abducted or go missing every single day. And family violence is happening every single day. And I think that's why it's a struggle because we're trying to stay true to that.
But I think that's also the beauty of the fact that we offer customized trainings. So people hear about us and maybe they think we're pigeonholed to only child sexual abuse or only child abduction, but we're not. You need a training. You need some help and some guidance on how to do that and how to bring in those experts.
Natalie Perkins:
And the great thing about that is it expands our capacities as well. We're learning new things, and new topics, and meeting new people. And I think we've had some really successful andexciting trainings that have come from that avenue.
[LAUGHS]
Crystal Cardenas:
Absolutely. So if you were given $1 million grant, what would you do with that?
Natalie Perkins:
It would definitely go in the disability's realm. For me, once you start learning about all of the downfalls and how much we as a society are failing that community, it is really impossible to ignore. Given our niche, and I know this is something that we're actively working on, but I really would love to focus on bringing the training that we currently provide to that population because it's needed.
Who's taking care of those kids? Who's those kids that struggle to communicate or are taken advantage of and overlooked for a multitude of reasons, be it physical or mental.
Way more outside caretakers than the average child because of those needs and those supports and not all of those folks have positive intentions.
Crystal Cardenas:
Correct.
Natalie Perkins:
And the really big one for me is taking the stigma away from it. Ithink there's a lot of discomfort in general in the world. When somebody is different, how do I act? How do I treat them justlike any other person. They're a person too. There's no differentway you need to treat them. Maybe there are some accommodations, absolutely. But they're just like you and me. They have feelings. They have thoughts. They have needs. And it's just making sure that they're treated with that dignity.
And that when they're being treated for something or spoken to that, they're the ones you're interacting with, not this person over here that maybe is translating for them or is helping. Yes, they're a part of it. But that's not who you're dealing with. You're dealing with this person in front of you, and really making sure that they're treated in that manner.
Crystal Cardenas:
I want to switch gears a little bit because one of the things that I love you for is your continued advocacy for the LGBTQ community.
Natalie Perkins:
You want to make me cry is what I'm hearing.
[LAUGHTER]
Natalie Perkins:
Just a tiny bit. Just a little bit.
Crystal Cardenas:
Just a couple tears. OK.
Natalie Perkins:
But it is such a big part of. And I think that I have been privileged enough to know you and just how accepting and warm you have been with your child and how-- not just that, but how now you have really spoken out and you're really trying to help other parents understand their kids and to just accept everyone for who they are. So tell us a little bit about your experience raisinga trans kid.
So back when Beau was in fourth grade, we just started to notice a shift in their personality and their comfort, let's say, within themselves. There was a very almost overnight change in absolutely despising having their picture taken. And then we moved out of state and they became a little more withdrawn.
And the move was hard for everybody. And so I just chalked it upto puberty is on the horizon that we just moved. And just lifechanges. There's a lot happening, we have a pretty open family with the good communication. And so that hadn't changedintensely. So I felt, like, you could chalk it up to a number ofthings and it's just adolescence. We moved back here.
And then in-- I think it was ninth grade, came to my husband and myself and wanted to talk to us and let us know that they were non-binary. I had very, very limited understanding of whatthat meant. And so Beau educated us, and I'll say that it was lifejarring. I mean, it really rocked our worlds, and was very difficult for us on different levels. And we continue to have conversations, but it was a lot to process, especially for our generation.
My husband really, really struggled and felt like if I had just spent more time with him as a child, maybe things would be different.And immediately my response was that-- here come the tears--he's not broken. There's nothing to repair. It's a feeling. They feel like they're in the wrong body. That must be absolutelyhorrible. I can't imagine.
So fast forward, over the last few years, we tried to really provide a safe space for them to really explore what this meant and find out who they are. And Beau now considers themselvesto be a trans woman. She feels more feminine than anything else, more regularly. And so really feels that is the body she wasmeant to be in. Unfortunately for her, the big struggle is that she is 6 foot 3, with a baritone voice.
And we knew when we started to come out to friends and family that we would probably lose some friends over this. Because not everybody can get past things. And you know what, to each their own, that's on you. At the end of the day, that is still the same person that has always been my child, my first born. That hasn't changed.
And so if you loved them at one point, same person. They just feel differently. And that's none of your business, how I feel. I'mvery-- as you can tell, passionate about it. They're still our kids.They need our love. They need our support. They don't need more trauma or stress added on to this already very difficult thing that they're going through. And so don't be selfish. It's not about you. It's about them and how you can support them.
And when you chose to be a parent, along with that comes unconditional love. Is it uncomfortable? Yeah. Is it hard? 100%. Does it make for some awkward conversations and reactions? Yeah, it doesn't feel good all the time. But I will choose themevery minute of every day over anybody. So go on with our lives. But there doesn't need to be negativity brought into it just because you don't agree with it.
And so I think for me, the education piece is so important because there are a lot of assumptions made. We've had fortunately amazing support from our community of friends and family. And do all the family get it? No. That's OK. It's hard. I getit. In time. But daily I am in awe of Beau and she chose to wear a gown for senior prom and that was a defining moment for us that was terrifying. But again, was incredibly well-received bypeople.
And I had a choice in that moment when she came to me. We had a suit. We were ready to go. And she said, how would youfeel if I wore a dress? And I had a choice to make in that moment. I could prioritize myself, and my fears, and my concerns, and I could say, I don't think it's a good idea. Youshould wear the suit. Or I could allow her this moment of complete bravery and authenticity to be herself.
And in that process, letting her know that we're behind you 1,000%. And that's what we did. And she still looks back at thatand loves that she wore the gown and had a night where she feltamazing. And that's worth everything.
Crystal Cardenas:
Oh, my gosh. I'm getting teary eyed over here, too, just-- I really appreciate your vulnerability and you're willing to share that because it is difficult to bridge that generation gap, where people are very quick to judge you and get mad at you fo rsaying the wrong things, thinking the wrong things, feeling the wrong things, misstepping, and I think that is very challenging.
And as you're navigating parenting, and adjusting, and accepting, and evolving your relationship with someone who is transitioning or who someone who has just come out as a heterosexual female, I get nervous about saying the wrong things and making sure that I'm being supportive and politically correct and all that stuff. And so one of the things that I remember so much and I feel so grateful to be your friend through all of this because I have learned so much.
One of the things I remember is that you would say, why do I have to say anything? Why do I have to talk like it's the same? And all of Beau's friends got it. And it was so easy and so great. And that's I think one of the beauties of being young, being open-minded, and being really accepting. And also one of the downfalls of us, in our 40s, and 50s, and 60s is that it's a way bigger shift for us than it is for the youth.
Natalie Perkins:
And so in so many ways, I'm so grateful that it is not a big deal.It's like, ta-da.
And that's one of the big pieces that we took away from this. Is when we were going through this, I told Beau, I said, I need a minute to grieve the life that I envisioned for you as my son. Myhopes and dreams for you as my son. Honestly, she didn't really get it. And there was some frustration for her because from her perspective, nothing's changed. It's not that big a deal.
For her, this generation, it's for the majority. There are still thosethat completely disagree with it. But for a majority of these kidstoday, it's a non-conversation-- like it doesn't matter. You canidentify us whatever you want. Don't care. The change we've seen in her over the last few years is remarkable.
I mean, just such a happier, more outgoing, confident person, and that's all you ever want for your kids. And so every day it reaffirms that we made the right decisions as a family and the way we're handling everything. But yeah. There's just a need for just kindness.
At the end of the day, it's the same with people living with disabilities and everybody's got something going on, most of things are invisible. So it just right, it costs nothing to be kind.
Crystal Cardenas:
As we were talking, Natalie, and we were talking about Beau'sfriends and that group, how great was it. Was it the same experience with your daughter, with your younger daughter?
Natalie Perkins:
So my youngest, initially was excited because now she had her gay best friend.
[LAUGHS]
She had a sister. And that was exciting. She helps with her hair and her makeup if she was wearing makeup, things like that. But then she struggled, and she had to grapple with the fact that she lost her big brother. And while she wants desperately to beBeau's number one ally and supporter, she also had to go through her adjusting.
And there was a brief period when we couldn't really talk to just anybody about it because Beau didn't want us to yet. We were still navigating things as a family, and that was one of the conversations we had, was like, we all need somebody to speak to. So whether it's that we seek out a therapist or everybody gets to tell one friend, whoever your person is, we all need somebody to talk to. As close as we are, I'm not what she alwaysneeds. She needs peers.
And same for us. That's lovely that I can speak to my then 12-year-old about it. But that's not who I need. And my husbandalso needs another male to speak to. It just-- but when it was necessary and it came up, it happened. And so I think we sort of collectively figured out what everybody needed, gave each other that space, and now she doesn't have a brother. She has a sister.
People she doesn't know or does know, she always talks about her sister. This is my sister. And she's very protective. They havea fantastic relationship now. It's better than it's been in a long time.
Crystal Cardenas:
Oh, that's awesome. And I just want to commend you, and yourfamily, and your husband, because it is difficult. And I think sometimes as a parent and as individual peoples on the outside, it is harder to understand why you can't adjust to the transition.It's like Beau is correct in that, she didn't change. She still is the same person.
But I think one of the things that I see as an outsider is that Beau had time to process and decide all of this ahead of time without you. So by the time Beau tells you, she's same person. But now,here's what I was truly thinking and navigating for so long andI'm telling you and you also needed that time to process andnavigate and deal with all the feelings of guilt. Did I do enough?Did I not? Was I supportive? All these things where saying, oh,maybe I shouldn't have said this.
Oh, well, and it's like the hopes and dreams comment, where Ineed to more-- and Beau's was like, what are you talking about?I can still do all of those things. You're right. You can. Looks alittle different. But all those things are still 100%. So I can now understand their frustration and like, what are you talking? Idon't understand. I can still do all these things. I'm the sameperson.
That's why I'm so excited about the ALLY project and thiseducation piece that we're doing for parents that we've been sograteful to receive donations for, but what's still more. A little plug there. We'd still like more to do more is because there is agap. And I think we really need just folks to help us understand these dynamics of you-- even though you may not, you may be doing everything intentionally possible to found supportive.
There are things that the younger generations are looking at that maybe are not a thing for them and they're not quite sure why you can't just get on board. We really need something to bridge that gap with the generations. I think as everybody gets older,and our young generations are now the elders. I hope that we're not going to have these problems anymore. But right now, yeah, we're in a transition time, where we're a lot more accepting, but we're still not all the way there.
Natalie Perkins
We have a long way to go. We have a long way to go. And theeducation piece is important. And there's simple ways to do it and simple conversations you can have just to make it more layman's terms, if you will, just more relatable, which is really the approach I would like to take. But there's also another side to it where families need to know that there's support out there.
That if you don't have anybody else in your life going through this, who do you talk to about it? Who do you haveconversations with, because it's lonely. It can be lonely,depending on where you are. I'm sitting here telling you about it's been a relatively positive experience for us. And I am veryaware that is not the norm. But I also still make plenty ofmistakes.
Even this week, I had a business meeting and we were just talking about family, and he said, your oldest, that's your son, correct? And I had a choice in that moment to either, no, actuallymy daughter, or well, yeah, actually, my trans daughter and I didnone of that. I said yes. And like, I have beaten myself up over that ever since.
And it wasn't intentional. It wasn't something I thought about. Itjust was this going to be so much easier and faster. I've just,yes. Yeah. But that felt really icky. It didn't feel good. And sothat's where I can do better. I know better and I should havedone better. And next time I will. It's a constant evolvingeducation. You're constantly learning. You're constantly trying todo better.
And really, at the end of the day, these beautiful humans just need to know that you're trying. Just try. It's OK if you make an error, but just try, because that is so validating for them. Andthat lets them know that you hear them, you see them, youaccept them, and you're doing your best as opposed to justdismissing them and not even trying. That's hurtful. That feelshurtful for them. And that's what we need to avoid.
I think one of the biggest takeaways is for people to rememberthat it's OK to make mistakes. We make mistakes in all aspectsof our lives. And as a parent, I know that it's even harder to lookback and reflect on the mistakes that you make as a parent. But also our mistakes are what help us grow and our children learn from how we handle those mistakes.
And I think our children learn mostly by our vulnerability andsaying, I don't always say the right things. I don't always do theright thing. But I am sorry, and I am trying, and I want to do thebest I can for you. And I want to be there to support you. So I think it's really important that anyone who's struggling remembers that and just keeps that in the forefront as they continue to navigate parenting and try to be the best parent they can for these kids.
Crystal Cardenas:
Natalie, after going through this, what would you say to a parent whose child just came out to them?
Natalie Perkins:
So this did recently happen to me. And the biggest thing I saidwas, number one, they're still your child. Still the same personthat you love and know, that this is really hard for them andeducation is your friend. So I listed some resources that I have used that I recommended to her, and said, you have to try and have to get on board quickly.
And the pronouns is the number one thing. And that was her bigstruggle. But again, that's your first way to show them thatthey're seen and understood and you're trying. And to them, itreally is. It's the simplest thing you can do is those pronouns.And if you dismiss it, it doesn't go well with them. It's not well-received. So just try and it's uncomfortable, but sit-in thatspace.
And just seek out the support where you can, friends, or hopefully family members, somewhere in your-- is there community group. Is there, a therapist, somebody. You have to find an outlet for yourself and a safe space for you to process this. But at the same time, you just need your child to know that they're loved and you may not understand it, but you're trying.And that you still love them. That's the most important thing.
Crystal Cardenas:
Absolutely. Absolutely. And hopefully with our ALLY project, we can help some of those parents who are--
Natalie Perkins:
Yeah. I'm excited for us to be able to put out some resources for people so that-- it's from podcast episodes, to hopefully some free online webinars, hopefully some printed materials that you can-- just quick, easy guides that you can reference.
Quick, easy, definitions, relatable information so that it takes the complexity out of it and really helps you just to see-- let's keep it simple. And this is really at the heart of it, what's important and what you need to know to support your child.
Crystal Cardenas:
Yes, definitely. Well, thank you, Natalie, for your time. Thank you for your vulnerability and thank you for being such an amazing leader for us here at CIR.
Natalie Perkins:
Thank you.
Crystal Cardenas:
To help CIR, donate directly to the ALLY for Parents Project.With your donation, we will be able to create educational content to guide parents and guardians with supporting theirLGBTQ plus children. Donate at cirinc.org/donate.
We encourage you to donate to CIR and the ALLY for Parents Project. Help us make the change in the LGBTQ+ communities.
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Thank you so much for listening to another episode of Remember Why You're Here. To access the transcript for this episode and to learn more about what we do at CIR, please visit our website at cirinc.org Until next time.
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